Comments for Journey Group Leaders Blog http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org Journey Group Leaders Blog Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:05:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 Comment on Boasting about Weakness by Alicia http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/12/01/boasting-about-weakness/#comment-143 Alicia Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:51:37 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=34#comment-143 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

]]> Comment on Boasting about Weakness by Beth http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/12/01/boasting-about-weakness/#comment-142 Beth Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:55:04 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=34#comment-142 Yes [pride] a [pride] link [pride] is [pride] required [pride] for [pride] conversation - [pride] I [pride] just [pride] happened [pride] upon [pride] this [pride] as [pride] I [pride] came [pride] to [pride] the [pride] site [pride] to [pride] listen [pride] to [pride] sermons. Personally, [pride] I [pride] have [pride] no [pride] weaknesses [pride] but [pride] the [pride] idea [pride] was [pride] nice! Yes [pride] a [pride] link [pride] is [pride] required [pride] for [pride] conversation - [pride] I [pride] just [pride] happened [pride] upon [pride] this [pride] as [pride] I [pride] came [pride] to [pride] the [pride] site [pride] to [pride] listen [pride] to [pride] sermons.

Personally, [pride] I [pride] have [pride] no [pride] weaknesses [pride] but [pride] the [pride] idea [pride] was [pride] nice!

]]> Comment on Boasting about Weakness by elaineb http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/12/01/boasting-about-weakness/#comment-124 elaineb Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:37:53 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=34#comment-124 Well, I didn't send out an email with the blog link in it this time. Apparently, that is required for conversation! Well, I didn’t send out an email with the blog link in it this time. Apparently, that is required for conversation!

]]> Comment on Boasting about Weakness by Alicia http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/12/01/boasting-about-weakness/#comment-123 Alicia Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:47:12 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=34#comment-123 Tee hee hee. Elaine, maybe you and I are the only ones with weaknesses at Evergreen! THAT'S why this is such a great church!! Tee hee hee. Elaine, maybe you and I are the only ones with weaknesses at Evergreen! THAT’S why this is such a great church!!

]]> Comment on Boasting about Weakness by Alicia http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/12/01/boasting-about-weakness/#comment-109 Alicia Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:37:12 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=34#comment-109 Well, to begin with, I could have written your post. So, choosing ANOTHER weakness...how many do you want? I'll give you two. I am self conscious and insecure, so, of course, God gives me a teaching gift. Anytime anything vaguely coherent comes out of my mouth when I'm in front of a group of more than 1 person...that's all God. That scares the bejabbers out of me, but I also love seeing God. Women have been a thorn in my side for as long as I can remember. I've never understood them. I've never had patience for them. I've always had almost all male friends. So, naturally, the people at ECC I'm most fond of, and the ones I disciple almost exclusively, are women. Again, and trust me on this, that is ALL God. Well, to begin with, I could have written your post. So, choosing ANOTHER weakness…how many do you want? I’ll give you two.

I am self conscious and insecure, so, of course, God gives me a teaching gift. Anytime anything vaguely coherent comes out of my mouth when I’m in front of a group of more than 1 person…that’s all God. That scares the bejabbers out of me, but I also love seeing God.

Women have been a thorn in my side for as long as I can remember. I’ve never understood them. I’ve never had patience for them. I’ve always had almost all male friends. So, naturally, the people at ECC I’m most fond of, and the ones I disciple almost exclusively, are women. Again, and trust me on this, that is ALL God.

]]> Comment on Living In Community by Alicia http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/11/10/living-in-community/#comment-103 Alicia Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:24:38 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=32#comment-103 I think maybe clarification about what is Christ-like might be helpful. Because if Christ-like is what we normally think of as "good enough" or "clean enough," then I can see Beth's point. But, to me, being Godly, or Christ-like, means being whole and healthy. The alternative, then, would be that any behavior, attitude, etc., that is harmful would not be Godly. If Elaine was eating cat hair rather than pursuing adequate medical care or nutrition, then my love for her would require me to find a way to approach the subject in such a way as to give the greatest chance of her "hearing" what I had to say because I love her. But, it might be that she doesn't trust that I love her. Or, that she is utterly convinced that I am wrong. So, no matter how carefully I approach her, she might get angry and say I'm "judging" her when I'm really acting out of genuine concern and love. So, I agree with Elaine's statement that, "if the love isn't communicated, then the attempt is a failure," but I also know that sometimes the communication isn't recognized or acknowledged. Re: homosexuality...I would not walk up to someone and start pontificating about the evils of gay marriage. But, I do believe that homosexuality is not God's best for people. I believe that it is ultimately either harmful in and of itself, or, at the very least, is the result of harmful influences. So, would I perform a gay marriage or vote to legalise it? No. Because I can't call something "good" that I believe God calls "not good." Does that mean I'm "judging" a gay person? No. It means I have to live my life based on the best assessment that I can get from the Holy Spirit about which decisions lead to wholeness, health and love...and which decisions lead to brokeness, pain and loss of love. There is a difference between judging and discernment. So, how do I help others obtain Christ-likeness? 1. Prayer. 2. I can't think of many times I would act when someone hadn't asked my opinion. (Maybe to save a life or something, but those cases are rare.) So, I'd have to be invited to participate in their spiritual growth. 3. More prayer. 4. Acting in community rather than taking a Lone Ranger approach is healthy. For example, we have 5 elders, not just 1 pastor. Getting input from spiritually mature people in my community is always helpful in deciding how/when to approach a situation. 5. Did I mention prayer? I think maybe clarification about what is Christ-like might be helpful. Because if Christ-like is what we normally think of as “good enough” or “clean enough,” then I can see Beth’s point. But, to me, being Godly, or Christ-like, means being whole and healthy. The alternative, then, would be that any behavior, attitude, etc., that is harmful would not be Godly.

If Elaine was eating cat hair rather than pursuing adequate medical care or nutrition, then my love for her would require me to find a way to approach the subject in such a way as to give the greatest chance of her “hearing” what I had to say because I love her. But, it might be that she doesn’t trust that I love her. Or, that she is utterly convinced that I am wrong. So, no matter how carefully I approach her, she might get angry and say I’m “judging” her when I’m really acting out of genuine concern and love.

So, I agree with Elaine’s statement that, “if the love isn’t communicated, then the attempt is a failure,” but I also know that sometimes the communication isn’t recognized or acknowledged.

Re: homosexuality…I would not walk up to someone and start pontificating about the evils of gay marriage. But, I do believe that homosexuality is not God’s best for people. I believe that it is ultimately either harmful in and of itself, or, at the very least, is the result of harmful influences. So, would I perform a gay marriage or vote to legalise it? No. Because I can’t call something “good” that I believe God calls “not good.” Does that mean I’m “judging” a gay person? No. It means I have to live my life based on the best assessment that I can get from the Holy Spirit about which decisions lead to wholeness, health and love…and which decisions lead to brokeness, pain and loss of love. There is a difference between judging and discernment.

So, how do I help others obtain Christ-likeness?
1. Prayer.
2. I can’t think of many times I would act when someone hadn’t asked my opinion. (Maybe to save a life or something, but those cases are rare.) So, I’d have to be invited to participate in their spiritual growth.
3. More prayer.
4. Acting in community rather than taking a Lone Ranger approach is healthy. For example, we have 5 elders, not just 1 pastor. Getting input from spiritually mature people in my community is always helpful in deciding how/when to approach a situation.
5. Did I mention prayer?

]]> Comment on Living In Community by elaineb http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/11/10/living-in-community/#comment-102 elaineb Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:10:14 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=32#comment-102 See, this is a good point. Because even if, say, I had a vision from God which allowed me to see Christ and have a perfect understanding of how to be Christ-like, that doesn't mean that my job is to go around telling people that they must be like me. That's just legalism. Our purpose is to help people connect with Christ individually, using the spiritual disciplines and study of the Bible as their tools. Because my perfect imitation of Christ will be unique, just as your perfect imitation of Christ is. And, sadly, we don't have perfect imitations. So we use the tools given - prayer, Bible, disciplines - to build a relationship with Christ to improve our imitation of Christ. There are times when you must lovingly confront someone when they do something which is obviously destructive and unChristlike. But once you've had that conversation, you move on. Homosexuality is an area where Christians disagree. But that doesn't have to mean that we can't be in community with one another. I think this might be worth another blog post - I'll think about it. See, this is a good point. Because even if, say, I had a vision from God which allowed me to see Christ and have a perfect understanding of how to be Christ-like, that doesn’t mean that my job is to go around telling people that they must be like me. That’s just legalism.
Our purpose is to help people connect with Christ individually, using the spiritual disciplines and study of the Bible as their tools. Because my perfect imitation of Christ will be unique, just as your perfect imitation of Christ is. And, sadly, we don’t have perfect imitations. So we use the tools given - prayer, Bible, disciplines - to build a relationship with Christ to improve our imitation of Christ.
There are times when you must lovingly confront someone when they do something which is obviously destructive and unChristlike. But once you’ve had that conversation, you move on. Homosexuality is an area where Christians disagree. But that doesn’t have to mean that we can’t be in community with one another.
I think this might be worth another blog post - I’ll think about it.

]]> Comment on Living In Community by Beth http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/11/10/living-in-community/#comment-101 Beth Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:29:37 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=32#comment-101 Agreed - if you started starving yourself to death, nd even if I didn't love you, I would try to convey that I felt you were underestimating your self-worth, etc. I'm "struggling" (to use the proper Christian venacular) with when we think we know what is Christ like - and how others can obtain that. Agreed - if you started starving yourself to death, nd even if I didn’t love you, I would try to convey that I felt you were underestimating your self-worth, etc.

I’m “struggling” (to use the proper Christian venacular) with when we think we know what is Christ like - and how others can obtain that.

]]> Comment on Living In Community by elaineb http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/11/10/living-in-community/#comment-100 elaineb Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:07:04 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=32#comment-100 I want to try another example. Let's say that I believe that I have an obscure disease and the only cure is to eat cat hair harvested from my couch cushions. And let's say that you think that I'm crazy, and that I would be happier and healthier if I did NOT eat cat hair. What should you do? I would hope that you would gently and lovingly confront me, explain your position, and offer, in love, to support me in any way possible as I try to stop eating cat hair. BUT, once the offer has been made, no matter what my response, you and I both need to find a way to maintain our friendship - our community. So if a person believes that homosexuality is a symptom of deep brokenness, and that the gay person would be happier if that brokenness was resolved, wouldn't they have an obligation to act in love? NOT, you notice, in judgment or condemnation. Ed's comment was really more about laying down our rights, not about trying to enforce a set of rules for holy living. Maybe, in this case, the person who believes homosexuality is wrong should lay down their right to confront. Maybe not. But it is never about fixing - it's about helping each other in love. And if the love isn't communicated, then the attempt is a failure. I want to try another example.
Let’s say that I believe that I have an obscure disease and the only cure is to eat cat hair harvested from my couch cushions. And let’s say that you think that I’m crazy, and that I would be happier and healthier if I did NOT eat cat hair. What should you do?
I would hope that you would gently and lovingly confront me, explain your position, and offer, in love, to support me in any way possible as I try to stop eating cat hair. BUT, once the offer has been made, no matter what my response, you and I both need to find a way to maintain our friendship - our community.
So if a person believes that homosexuality is a symptom of deep brokenness, and that the gay person would be happier if that brokenness was resolved, wouldn’t they have an obligation to act in love? NOT, you notice, in judgment or condemnation.
Ed’s comment was really more about laying down our rights, not about trying to enforce a set of rules for holy living. Maybe, in this case, the person who believes homosexuality is wrong should lay down their right to confront. Maybe not. But it is never about fixing - it’s about helping each other in love. And if the love isn’t communicated, then the attempt is a failure.

]]> Comment on Living In Community by Beth http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/2008/11/10/living-in-community/#comment-99 Beth Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:09:25 +0000 http://journeyleaders.blog.evergreench.org/?p=32#comment-99 Ok, say I'm gay, you truly believe i would be happier if i wasn't gay, is it your job to FIX me? to impose your beliefs on me? Ed says individual rights don't matter - being Godly does. Well it's YOUR interpretation that being Gay is ungodly - so where's the line between loving me and judging me? Ok, say I’m gay, you truly believe i would be happier if i wasn’t gay, is it your job to FIX me? to impose your beliefs on me? Ed says individual rights don’t matter - being Godly does. Well it’s YOUR interpretation that being Gay is ungodly - so where’s the line between loving me and judging me?

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