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Living In Community
By elaineb | November 10, 2008
A discussion board I participate in has recently been wrestling with a couple of issues. One is community vs. individuality. The other is our freedom in Christ. How are these 2 related? Well, because somehow, we have to reconcile our individual freedom in Christ with living in community. This can cause problems, because some people believe their freedom in Christ gives them the right to drink alcohol, while others believe that glorifying God in their lives requires them to sacrifice alcohol, just to give a minor example.
There are two important questions here.
1) How do we live in community when there’s tension over opposing beliefs?
2) Are we willing to live in community with those who hold opposing beliefs?
And just to seed the comment area, I’d like to bring up some areas where thoughtful Christians disagree. Homosexuality. Abortion. Creationism vs. Evolution. War. Swearing. Ordination of women. Communion. Baptism (of children, multiple times). Leadership Qualifications.
Tell me, how do you resolve the tension with those who differ from you in these areas? And how far are you willing to go to be in community with them?
Topics: Uncategorized |
November 10th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
LOL - did you write this for me?!?!?!
As the bra-burning, left-wing, liberal in the group (really, in 90% of ANY room I am in, I’m the WAY-OUT-THERE one!!) I find this issue very easy - **it’s all in the respect**.
I have many anti-choice (abortion/gay rights/women in leadership) friends! I respect their right to be wrong…. er, I mean, have a different opinion - lol. REALLY – republican or democrat, Obama or McCain, Charismatic or Methodist – does anyone say ‘because I hate this country/these people/Christ I’m going to…’ this or that.
In other words, most people are passionate from love – not evil or hatred. Take any side of any issue – both sides feel right, both sides usually come to their opinion because they love “our troops”, “our elderly”, whatever….
We can live in community – if we respect each other!
PS If we love each other – friends can have great discussions. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfFcgJY8OSU
November 11th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Beth, haha, no I didn’t write this just for you! It’s not like you’re the only left-wing liberal at Evergreen…
I love your point about respect and about understanding that people take their position from love. For example, a friend of mine would argue Creationism because she believed that evolution devalued people as being created in the image of God (NOT a friend here, a friend in DC). Now, I’m not a Creationist, but I see her point exactly. I just have a different path to affirming the worth of people.
Discussions between people of opposing views get ugly when we demonize our opponents and forget that they are probably coming from the same place of caring that we are. Another important point: discussions get ugly when we believe that our view is the correct one and any other view is wrong. One of my core assumptions when arguing a point is: Hey, I could be wrong. A little humility goes a long way here. I mean, even the Big Stuff that we would all agree on - say the Trinity - do any of us REALLY understand that? Really?
November 11th, 2008 at 11:22 am
You both make really good points. I think respect is key. President Bush must be respected because of the seat he holds. But people can disagree with actions he performs or does not perform. When the person is respected then discussion on issues should be open and honest each seeking the truth together.
Beth I think you bring up a good point about “anti-choice”, which the right call “Pro-life”. I have two comments on this. The right assumes that the left is “anti-life” which is not the case in my opinion. Is not a Pro-life person really a Pro-choice person. I think we are all “pro-choice” as folowers of Christ. God gave us the ability to choose him or not choose him. Even if I choose to never abort a child, I still have a choice. God never legislated how people should choose. Choice comes with concenquences and the poeple who make those choices, whether right or wrong in your own eyes, will have to live to those and eventually answer to God for those. It really tears at my heart when I hear of someone getting an abortion because I personally, without knowing the persons situation, do not think I would or could ever make that decision. So do I advocate abortion, no! But I also do think it should be legislated.
Secondly, I forgot.
Bottom, we need to love people where they are and love enough to help them move along in their journey with God. If someone is going to change it is not up to us but God. When these things are kept in perspective real, deep conversations can happen reguardless of the the view.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Sorry I see a word left out above. Where it says, “But I also do think it should be legislated.” I forgot the word “not”. So the sentence should read - But I also do NOT think it should be legislated.
November 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Todd, thanks for the clarification! And I also really appreciate your discussion about choice and how God never legislates choice.
To me, this is also a part of living with the tension: finding common ground and finding what the difference really is. When we talk about gay marriage, both against and for, why do we hold those positions? Both for and against probably have a deep respect for individuals, and sincerely want them to find happiness. They just differ on how that can be achieved. Digging down into the root of the argument reveals the underlying differences as well as the underlying similarities.
This is why I appreciate both Republicans and Democrats. Both parties want to do what is best for America (ideally). They just have different visions of how to achieve that. Oh, and this is also why I’m registered independent!
November 15th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I think it is interesting how we often talk about holding onto our own freedoms to think and do as we want. The only freedom I hear Jesus talk about is freedom from sin and its effects. Jesus challenged people, especially religious people, in their thinking. Todd has done some of this even here. The question is not how do we hold onto our individuality in community, but what is the mission of God in both issues. In other words, we need to ask in every situation what brings life and health and joy to the world and the future rather than propping up our personal rightness. Our western mentality is so stuck on personal freedoms that I think we lose sight of the real mission of God (often to avoid the pain of our own brokenness). Jesus’ example was to give up his rights, his glory, and his life in order to communicate the truth and focus of redeeming the world.
November 15th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Ed,
That’s a great point. While we all do have freedom, Paul very clearly gives the example that our freedom should not be used to damage others. In other words, part of our freedom is our freedom to not exercise our freedom. To use a tired example: I may believe I have the freedom to drink alcohol. But if my drinking in front of someone else will hurt them, I have the freedom to abstain from drinking.
I think this ties in with my second question: how far are you willing to go to be in community with someone else?
How much of your own freedom are you willing to give up for the greater good?
November 20th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Ok, say I’m gay, you truly believe i would be happier if i wasn’t gay, is it your job to FIX me? to impose your beliefs on me? Ed says individual rights don’t matter - being Godly does. Well it’s YOUR interpretation that being Gay is ungodly - so where’s the line between loving me and judging me?
November 20th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I want to try another example.
Let’s say that I believe that I have an obscure disease and the only cure is to eat cat hair harvested from my couch cushions. And let’s say that you think that I’m crazy, and that I would be happier and healthier if I did NOT eat cat hair. What should you do?
I would hope that you would gently and lovingly confront me, explain your position, and offer, in love, to support me in any way possible as I try to stop eating cat hair. BUT, once the offer has been made, no matter what my response, you and I both need to find a way to maintain our friendship - our community.
So if a person believes that homosexuality is a symptom of deep brokenness, and that the gay person would be happier if that brokenness was resolved, wouldn’t they have an obligation to act in love? NOT, you notice, in judgment or condemnation.
Ed’s comment was really more about laying down our rights, not about trying to enforce a set of rules for holy living. Maybe, in this case, the person who believes homosexuality is wrong should lay down their right to confront. Maybe not. But it is never about fixing - it’s about helping each other in love. And if the love isn’t communicated, then the attempt is a failure.
November 20th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Agreed - if you started starving yourself to death, nd even if I didn’t love you, I would try to convey that I felt you were underestimating your self-worth, etc.
I’m “struggling” (to use the proper Christian venacular) with when we think we know what is Christ like - and how others can obtain that.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
See, this is a good point. Because even if, say, I had a vision from God which allowed me to see Christ and have a perfect understanding of how to be Christ-like, that doesn’t mean that my job is to go around telling people that they must be like me. That’s just legalism.
Our purpose is to help people connect with Christ individually, using the spiritual disciplines and study of the Bible as their tools. Because my perfect imitation of Christ will be unique, just as your perfect imitation of Christ is. And, sadly, we don’t have perfect imitations. So we use the tools given - prayer, Bible, disciplines - to build a relationship with Christ to improve our imitation of Christ.
There are times when you must lovingly confront someone when they do something which is obviously destructive and unChristlike. But once you’ve had that conversation, you move on. Homosexuality is an area where Christians disagree. But that doesn’t have to mean that we can’t be in community with one another.
I think this might be worth another blog post - I’ll think about it.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I think maybe clarification about what is Christ-like might be helpful. Because if Christ-like is what we normally think of as “good enough” or “clean enough,” then I can see Beth’s point. But, to me, being Godly, or Christ-like, means being whole and healthy. The alternative, then, would be that any behavior, attitude, etc., that is harmful would not be Godly.
If Elaine was eating cat hair rather than pursuing adequate medical care or nutrition, then my love for her would require me to find a way to approach the subject in such a way as to give the greatest chance of her “hearing” what I had to say because I love her. But, it might be that she doesn’t trust that I love her. Or, that she is utterly convinced that I am wrong. So, no matter how carefully I approach her, she might get angry and say I’m “judging” her when I’m really acting out of genuine concern and love.
So, I agree with Elaine’s statement that, “if the love isn’t communicated, then the attempt is a failure,” but I also know that sometimes the communication isn’t recognized or acknowledged.
Re: homosexuality…I would not walk up to someone and start pontificating about the evils of gay marriage. But, I do believe that homosexuality is not God’s best for people. I believe that it is ultimately either harmful in and of itself, or, at the very least, is the result of harmful influences. So, would I perform a gay marriage or vote to legalise it? No. Because I can’t call something “good” that I believe God calls “not good.” Does that mean I’m “judging” a gay person? No. It means I have to live my life based on the best assessment that I can get from the Holy Spirit about which decisions lead to wholeness, health and love…and which decisions lead to brokeness, pain and loss of love. There is a difference between judging and discernment.
So, how do I help others obtain Christ-likeness?
1. Prayer.
2. I can’t think of many times I would act when someone hadn’t asked my opinion. (Maybe to save a life or something, but those cases are rare.) So, I’d have to be invited to participate in their spiritual growth.
3. More prayer.
4. Acting in community rather than taking a Lone Ranger approach is healthy. For example, we have 5 elders, not just 1 pastor. Getting input from spiritually mature people in my community is always helpful in deciding how/when to approach a situation.
5. Did I mention prayer?